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PROSTATE CANCER SUPPORT SITE

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Frank K and C live in Illinois, USA. He was 61 when he was diagnosed on January 18, 2009. His initial PSA was 10.5 ng/ml, his Gleason Score was 6 and he was staged T1c . He is undecided as to his choice of treatment. Here is his story - just a one liner:

I have just been diagnosed and I am trying to see how to proceed with treatment.

 

UPDATED

February 2009

 

 

I received a call from my urologist informing me that two of the 12 samples taken during my prostate biopsy were cancerous. I was in denial. How could I have cancer? I feel great, no symptoms and take good care of myself.

Our 40th Wedding anniversary was days away and my beautiful wife and I put off doing anything until we got back from a few nice days on vacation.

Here is prostate test history:

In April of 2001 my PSA was 4.4 and my doctor recommended I have a biopsy. The needle test was horrible, I was not given anything to numb the prostate. But the results were negative, no cancer.

My PSA went up a little every year: 5.2 in 2003, 5.5 in 2005. No further biopsies because I refused the test. And for some reason my doctor did not take more PSA test until October 2008 when it was 10.5. I was retested a month later and it was 8.91. My GP sent me to a urologist who tested me again and it was 10.8.

I agreed to a biopsy and I was found to have 2 out of 12 samples of a low to medium grade cancer. My wife and I had a consultation with my urologist who recommended prostate removal, but I felt he was "selling the surgery too much" with no other choices. In fact when I mention watchful waiting and my thoughts on Chinese herbs, he said he would send me a registered letter informing me of my error in judgement.

I visited my oncologist who also is a 7th generation Master Herbalist of Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM). After examining me he said I am in good health and this cancer is not "that big a deal". He said a persons emotional well being, amount of sleep and Immune system are what determine how a person can treat cancer. And he said removing the prostate could spread the cancer and even with removal the cancer could come back somewhere else.

He gave me several herbs:

ACE, to treat enlarged glands and malignant growths.

QLS: for enlarged prostate and toxins

PXD: for lumps, nodules and malignant growths.

I should note I have been seeing this oncologist/herbalist for ten years and he advised me against the biopsy, saying they often miss the cancer anyway and the PSA test are not accurate. Of course now I think it was best to find out that I had cancer so I can be treated. But I respect his opinion.

I have an appointment with a different urologist to get a second opinion. And my regular doctor to discuss all my options. So far I am not ruling out surgery, but I am inclined to fight this thing with a better diet, herbs and more exercise. I will admit that if my PSA keeps going up I will take the surgery option more seriously, but the side effects of the surgery make me lean against it.

 

UPDATED

April 2009

 

 

In March I saw a Naturopathic doctor who believes a better diet with the Chinese herbs are the way to go.

April 8, For a second urological opinion, I went to The University of Chicago Hospital.

I thought their procedure of handling Prostate cancer was great. First a urologist "adviser" talks to you about your situation, He advised me that a Gleason score of 6 is the lowest it can be and still have cancer. The cancer is less than one percent of my prostate. My PSA number is high, but could be caused by other factors. And they have a watchful waiting program which I would be a candidate for.

Then the Urologist, Doctor Arieh Shalhav, talked to me alone, with my wife. First he told me he has done 938 Da Vinci surgeries. Then he said to "take everything he says with a grain of salt". Then he told me the usual stuff about prostate cancer and he recommends surgery.

When I was leaving the two doctors and nurse were in an office and I walked in to ask about the watchful waiting program. I was given more info about it and Dr. Shalhav, told me I am making a good decision.

Overall I think urologist now are realizing that with small tumors men are better off in a watchful waiting program than going through surgery. Personally I would rather be in this program and carefully watch this cancer, which may never develop into anything, than have my prostate taken out.

Furthermore my own program of diet, exercise and Chinese herbs have reduced my PSA number from 10.8 to 6.6. My Herbalist, Dr. Guo, who I saw again April 4, says he believes he can get the number even lower.

 

UPDATED

December 2009

 

 

I had a biopsy on October 1, it showed a slight increase in the cancer on one of 12 samples taken, and some signs of cancer in another sample as before. Still a Gleason 6.

My urologist Dr. Eggenger of University of Chicago Hospital is recommending surgery or some form or radiation to kill the cancer cells. He agreed that my biopsy showed a Gleason 6 which isn't as bad as it could be, although it is on both sides of the prostate. But he says the cancer could be worse than were finding, nobody knows for sure one way or the other.

One interesting thing he said though was that I have probably had this cancer for 10 years. Since my first PSA was 4.7 in 1999. From everything I have read this shows a very slow growing form of PC. He agrees but says no one can tell for sure how much cancer in in my prostate. Because they could be missing some with the biopsy.

My PSA now is hovering around 11. It was 10.5 one year ago then went down to 6.6 for one test and back up to 13.7 taken 30 minutes after a DRE exam. I then took four PSA test withing a six week period and all were around 11.5. Is the PSA test an accurate indicator? In one way yes, because I do have PC and in another way no because of the flucuating numbers. [Because PSA is NOT prostate cancer specific - see PSA 101 - it is not an accurate indicator for diagnosis. PSA generated by PCa tends to increase continuously at an ever increasing rate: PSA associated with non PCa problems tends to move up and down or eemain fairly stable].

My decision is to continue watchful waiting. Dr. Eggenger still is glad to work with me, but is concerned with the high PSA number and says it should be around 2-3 level. [This is a little like saying that a man in the US who is 6'3" should be 5'10" because that is the average height of men in the US.] I have another biopsy scheduled for July 2010 and we'll see from there how things look. I'm taking the Genistein plus Dr. Gou's herbs.

 

UPDATED

August 2010

 

 

I received my PSA results of 16.22 and I email my urologist asking him about doubling time and the fact he had done a DRE exam minutes before the PSE test. I told him I was having another PSA done Friday by Lab Corp, a test I was paying for. Here is his reply:

There is no benefit to checking the PSA again this Friday. PSA will vary by day, week, and month. [That is very true - so why does Dr Eggner ignore all the evidence of a fairly stable PSA result - apart from tests from his lab - see below?] A DRE can artificially increase the value, but only by 10%. [This definitive, absolute statement is not supported by any study that I know of.]Factoring in all these things, your PSA is still way too high. Whether your PSA returns this Friday at 11, 15, or 20, my recommendation to treat your prostate cancer remains. It is highly likely you have a far more concerning cancer than your biopsy suggests. Lastly, PSA doubling time is of limited to no value, as shown by multiple investigators at Johns Hopkins (Stacy Loeb and Pat Walsh) and Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center (Andrew Vickers).

Here are all my PSA results [dates are in US format - month: day: year - for those of us in the rest of the world who use a mre logical dating system:-)]

04/04/01 4.4 Dr. Hughes

07/31/01 Biopsy Negative

06/07/02 4.34 Dr. Hughes

09/25/03 5.2 Dr. Hughes

03/05/05 5.5 Dr. Raby

12/27/05 6.7 Dr. Raby

10/06/08 10.5 Dr. Raby

11/19/08 8.9 New York Life

12/04/08 10.8 Dr. McVary

01/19/09 Biopsy Dr. Cancer

06/01/09 13.7 Dr. Eggener After DRE

06/02/09 12.4 Lab Corp

07/01/09 12.7 Lab Corp

09/17/09 11.2 Lab Corp

09/28/09 19.3 Lab Corp Dr. Raby

10/01/09 Biopsy Dr. Gerber

10/21/09 0.1 Lab Corp (obvious lab error)

10/24/09 12.6 Lab Corp Dr. Raby

10/28/09 12.1 Lab Corp

10/29/09 13.2 Lab Corp Dr. Raby

05/25/10 13.4 Lab Corp

07/22/10 16.22 Dr. Eggener After DRE

I am seeing a nutritionist and a oncologist who tells me the doubling time is okay. So I am getting confused and a little concerned.[Interesting to see that on two occasions, the results from Dr Eggner's lab were higher than from Lab Corp. PSA results are notoriously unreliable, as Dr Eggner himself says.]

Frank's e-mail address is: garden12345@sbcglobal.net